Errors in the "exclusive sender" functionality

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Errors in the "exclusive sender" functionality

Postby vsp » Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:13 pm

Cross-posting from the "General Discussion" forum

Quoting from the FAQ -
<quote>
(just don't put the disposable address itself here, of course, since that would have the effect of allowing an unlimited number of messages from anyone)
</quote>

This would seem to indicate that if I have an address abc.vsp@spamgourmet.com and if I make it an exclusive sender to itself, and then use it to subscribe to a mailing list, I should keep getting messages sent to the list indefinitely.

I did just that recently, by creating 3 addresses for 3 lists and then making each address an exclusive sender for itself. A few days later, I stopped getting email from all 3 lists and saw that the SG message counts for these addresses had gone to zero.

Isn't this a bug?

Thanks,
vsp
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Postby josh » Fri Jan 14, 2005 6:49 pm

did the lists change the sending address (seems unlikely for three at once, but if they were related....)?
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Postby vsp » Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:33 pm

No, I don't think so.

I assume you mean my SG email address (I have watchwords enabled, so their email would have bounced). Also, I initialized the email ID with no number, so it got the default of 5. When I got back to SG to check why I wasn't receiving messages, I was that the remaining message count for all 3 IDs was 0.


Let us say my email ID was abc.vsp@spamgourmet.com (It wasn't, but I am using that as an example). A portion of the real headers from that message look as follows (except for my SG email ID for that list).

Hope this info helps

Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [199.232.76.165])
by gourmet.spamgourmet.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j0B0jlc4020016
for <abc.vsp@spamgourmet.com>; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 16:45:47 -0800
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org)
by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43)
id 1CoA2w-0006q3-BN
for abc.vsp@spamgourmet.com; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:38:06 -0500
Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43)
id 1Co9sd-0005xp-Q7
for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:27:29 -0500
Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43)
id 1Co9sP-0005r7-Kn
for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:27:14 -0500
Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org)
by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Co9sP-0005mv-3Z
for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:27:13 -0500
Received: from [205.149.2.136] (helo=xl2.seyza.com)
by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168)
(Exim 4.34) id 1Co9Zj-0001sj-HB
for gnu-arch-users@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:07:56 -0500
vsp
 
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Postby vsp » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:26 pm

Another test,

On all three IDs, I bumped up the remaining email count upto 20 and I can see the counts now decrementing as I receive messages on these lists.

This probably means SG is validating the remaining email count despite the "exclusive sender".

If a developer wants, I can send them private email with the 3 IDs that I am using so that you can check SG logs.

vsp
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Postby SysKoll » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:54 pm

Send a private message with 1. one the the emails that decrement the counter, 2. a cut-and-paste of the exclusive sender you entered, as listed on the address page of the web interface.
-- SysKoll
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Postby vsp » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:06 pm

Done
vsp
 
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Postby vsp » Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:39 pm

Hi Folks,

any update on this one?

I had a private message thread with SysKoll where I provided him with relevant information (the headers of the email for which the count was being decremented).

This one is really forcing me to come back frequently to bump up the counts on some email IDs

Thanks,
vsp
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Postby SysKoll » Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:41 am

Vsp,

I don't have time to handle this right now, unfortunately, but the header you sent is duly noted. Thanks for notifying us.

Meanwhile, did the suggested turnaround work?
-- SysKoll
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Postby vsp » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:57 pm

No,

It didn't work. The need to come back to bump up the counts has become less frequent, but the counts do keep going down to zero.

Just to elaborate: I made the domains gnu.org and nongnu.org exclusive senders where needed. (These are domains that the mailing lists I subscribed to send their emails from).

Ideally, I should be able to make my SG alias the exclusive sender for itself.

Anyway, I am happy that you folks acknowledge the bug. Please do take your time to fix it. ( I am extremely thankful to the folks here for this fantastic service - I can't overstress its utility to me ).

Many thanks to SysKoll, especially for paying attention the last two times I shouted about what I thought were bugs.

Thanks,
vsp
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Postby SysKoll » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:58 pm

Vsp,

Josh found that you have set a trusted sender for this account, not an exclusive sender for the address. Basically, there seems to be a mix up between trusted and exclusive senders, two differerent functionalities.

Trusted senders are per account (for all your addresses). Exclusive servers are per address..

What you need to do is logon to sg as vsp, go to the "Advanced" tab, look up your "monotone" address and click on it. Then, for this address, add nongnu.org as an exclusive sender.
-- SysKoll
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Postby vsp » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:23 pm

Folks,

There seems to be a huge mistake here. I just logged in and checked and I HAVE NO TRUSTED SENDERS. "You have 0 trusted sender(s)".

I do have exclusive senders for some of my addresses (including the "monotone" address).

Is it possible that Josh looked up some other person on this service by mistake?

Anyway, to reiterate, I have EXCLUSIVE senders NOT TRUSTED senders.

I think I also know why the counts keep getting decremented. Here is what I think is happening. Let us say person A post a message to the monotone mailing list. I (vsp) get the message and the count does not decrement. Then, person B replies to this message - ie the To: address on this reply is person A's email ID - and _copies_ the mailing list on his reply. Then, when I get the message from the mailing list, the SG count for that ("monotone") email ID gets decremented.

I am glad I thought to compare two messages - one for which the count was decremented and one for which it wasn't.

Josh/Syskoll does this throw some light on the problem?

Thanks for all your assistance.

P.S. - I don't have trusted senders.
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Postby josh » Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:18 am

try putting the address itself as the exclusive sender - right now you have a different exclusive sender for that address (nongnu.org) which won't match incoming senders. If you change the exclusive sender to be the address itself, it will be matched correctly and the count won't decrement.
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Postby vsp » Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:26 pm

josh wrote:try putting the address itself as the exclusive sender - right now you have a different exclusive sender for that address (nongnu.org) which won't match incoming senders. If you change the exclusive sender to be the address itself, it will be matched correctly and the count won't decrement.


Hi Josh,

I did have the email ID as an exclusive sender to itself. I forwarded to you a private msg that SysKoll sent me recommending that I make "nongnu.org" the exclusive sender if the count still decrements.

Please also read my earlier post where I describe that only messages on which the mailing is not the To: but the Cc: end up decrementing the SG count for that ID.

Thanks,
vsp
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Postby vsp » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:57 pm

Hi folks,

In the past few weeks I got the sense that we are still jostling over whether to tag this behaviour as a bug or not. (I think it is :-)

Please tell me if you agree with my characterization of the problem. I don't really care that much about the timeline for a fix at all, but once it is acknowledged as a bug by the developers it is bound to be addressed sooner or later.

In the meantime, I have the easy workaround of bumping the count back up every couple of days.

I just wanted to make sure that all developers/users were on the same page about the problem

Thanks,
vsp
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Postby SysKoll » Tue Mar 01, 2005 6:59 pm

Vsp,

It is true that if people on a mailing list get your masked address and respond to it directly, the sender do not match the exclusive sender you have defined and thus you get a decremented count. In that respect, I agree with your characterization. There is no easy solution. Unless you want the address to become a catchall. Which we don't want.

Josh, feel free to shoot me into pieces, I might be confused.
-- SysKoll
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